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Humble Store

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Post November 12th, 2013, 9:43 am

Posts: 867
Well, guys, looks like this fall is especially fruitful for new stores to be launched. First ShinyLoot, then IGS, now Humble Store.
So, how do you feel about it?
My first idea was liek " So what?". Humble Widgets was present for some time already and third party pages to collect all that widgets on one screen was exists too. Now Humble just made official frontpage.
Second, prices probably will not be very different from another stores, its not a permanent deal after all. Also, i taken a look and noticed, that their Store have 75% royalty to dev, while widgets have 90%, so maybe this will fall in strange situation where some game is sold via widget, but not store (and all of them lands in same Library in the end)/

Anyway, If Humble play their cards right they can compete with GOG for now, but i dont feel like they going to make a revolution.

Post November 12th, 2013, 11:24 am

Posts: 93
I agree that I don't see the Humble Store driving any sort of revolution. I feel like Humble has gotten caught up in doing big business and lost track of what was interesting in the first place. The original bundles were meant to drive attention to the best of the indie games, but now the bundles and weekly sales are just as likely to be old AAA titles looking for some extra cash.

As far as GOG goes, I don't think Humble will ever compete directly. GOG adds a lot of value by creating packaged installers, being agnostic about AAA/indie games, and by having prices that are set to one level regardless of currency (as opposed to many stores which charge significantly more in some countries). Where I do see direct competition is with IGS and Indie Gala, both of which feature a main PWYW deal and have a store front attached.

We'll see how things work out. I still think Humble's greatest contribution is the Humble widget.

Post November 12th, 2013, 12:04 pm

Posts: 867
Well, i never considered GalaStore any serious. In terms of time they was almost first in recent stores if we ignore things like IndieVania (close to extinction, gamedevelopers moving to another platforms) and IndieCity. IndieGalaStore was slow and buggy, as well as being just steam-reseller. SL is little better. IGS much better. Now Humble.
About Gog - Humble can compete due pretty decent indiegames base they gathered via widgets, not long ago they allowed only best games in their system. And from recent research Humble have like 200-300 game in Store and GOG have little more then 600 overall.
But i agree about GOG perks and that Humble really moved to AAA deals waaaay to much,albeit i can objectively understand them - just look how much money they made on recent WB bundle and how much they made on previous Android HIB. Since they just resell keys in WB bundle, that means they literally extract money - (15% default share!) - from air. So, they have to choose - moderately selling indie bundle with files, downloads (and piracy) or just key-resell with no hassle and $$$ fro just lending their name to another AAA distributor.

Post November 12th, 2013, 6:09 pm

Posts: 150
I've actually bought quite a few games on the Gala Store. Before Gala Giveaways there wasn't anything else to use Gala points on. And some of their mini bundles and sales are very low prices. The problem with the Gala Store is that once you've been through a round or two of their ever repeating sales you'll have everything you want that they have to offer and at that point they become pointless.

For someone who doesn't want Steam games though, I can see the Gala Store being largely useless.

Post November 13th, 2013, 5:49 pm

Posts: 273
The difference in Humble's cut is fair.
Most people never see any Humble Widget 'in the wild'.
Their proper sight has huge exposure. It's a bigger
cut for marketing I'm just telling myself.

The prices so far on the sales are most the
time lower than they have been before.
Three games thus far have not been.
Non-sale-prices I don't see them dip low but price-
matching I do see happening as often is already.

GoG and Humble serve a different crowd. GoG
has older games (made ready for current systems)
and goodies; Humble has Steam keys and Android
.APK options.
The DRM-free game is the same even if GoG is often
slow on patches.

Other Stores are often irrelevant compared.
IGS thus far has smaller titles, ShinyLoot.. well.. has
an odd collection w a steep price, Gala is either
VERY expensive or very cheap and doesn't really
offer much in ways of actual quality often.

Post November 22nd, 2013, 4:42 pm

Posts: 867
So far from Humble Store deals i see that in term of DRM-free friendliness it Humble Bundle > Humble Widget > Humble Store.
A LOT of games which Humble Store offer come just as key while they released as DRM-free elsewhere. OFC game which was sold with DRM-free downloads in Widgets (and previously feature in bundle) is DRM-free in Store too, but new games is mostly come just as Steam keys. Like System Shock 2, Reus, Giana Sisters - they all is sold on GOG too, with downloads. I realy disappointed with Humble Store.
Looks like they totally abandoned DRM-free idea in their store. I can undesrtand when game is steam-only, but absence of downloads when they IS available is like sign "We steam resellers"
Would be happy to pay 2.5$ for Giana Sisters Addon but i WILL NOT do it, because its just key.

Post November 23rd, 2013, 3:31 am

Posts: 273
Was bound to happen but was a bit a shock nevertheless the see AAA pop up in fairly large numbers.

It's kinda bad enough that Humble has been trying to turn devs away from Desura but yea, they
are 'just another Steam vendor' now. The Ouya game is explained away by the ports coming early
2014 to actually make money after that doomed platform.

The deals on average are not really any good either as the games 90-95% of the time so far have been
at LEAST cheaper or same price on various Steam sales and often on other sites.

Don't blame them but the Store if a very clear cash-grab.

Post November 23rd, 2013, 7:12 am

Posts: 153
Location: Czech Republic
I have bought one or two items in GalaStore too, but imho it sucks. It is very uncomfortable to use.
when I bough one item here in IGS store it was much more comfortable (trough many thing could be improved too).

Thus I don't think any new distribution platform is predetermined to fail only because there are platforms already well established. There are many ways you can add value for customer and "steal" them form competition.
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desura acc: http://www.desura.com/members/lurtzcz
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Post November 23rd, 2013, 1:02 pm

Posts: 273
IndieGala Store is a place to buy for that ridiculously cheap game they have
every now and again or that game that's just not worth it at full price but they
have it on a repeated sale for a buck.
Indie Gala (bundle) in the same way you buy for price/quantity, not quality.

Other stores generally just offer low value (ShinyLoot anyone?), others seem to aim
for service/ease-of-use (Humble e.g.) but nobody really offers both.

Personally I'm fond of IGS since my first purchase and though they might not
have 'that title I'm after' sometimes or not at the right price, IGS seems to hit
that sweet-spot in the middle more than any other to me thus far.

This all is ignoring the occasional sale on whatever store that is actually good but heck..

Post November 23rd, 2013, 4:05 pm

Posts: 49
Location: Long Island, New York, United States
I'm of the mindset that more competition can be a good thing. You just need to be realistic about what the Humble Store is though and temper your expectations. It is not meant to offer the same level of discounts or deals as the time-limited bundles. That just wouldn't make sense. The way I see it, you should expect sales about on par with other major digital storefronts, which is pretty much what we have seen thus far. The Humble Store is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

I do agree however that it is a little disappointing that, in addition to a Steam key, some titles are not currently offered DRM-free as well even though that option is out there. For me at least this would be a good selling point because this is not really offered anywhere else -- at least not consistently anyway. IGS probably comes the closest. On a side note: as far as I know, currently the only way to get Giana Sisters + DLC both for Steam and DRM-free from the same source is if you were a Kickstarter backer (as I am).

Anyway, as far as the Indie Gala Store goes, yes I have found it to be somewhat slow as well and the selection is there is very limited and mostly either stuff that I'm not really interested in or that games that have already appeared multiple times in various bundles (most notably those from Indie Gala or Bundle Stars). The selection on IGS is limited as well (albeit with some more interesting titles in my opinion), although it does seem to be gradually growing. GOG obviously already has a decent size selection library already in place but they are generally older games, and for that reason I don't really see them as direct competition because it's a different niche (although this is slowly changing as they diversify a bit more). In my eyes, Humble's greatest strength will be it's rock-solid infrastructure and ability to get more popular, more sought-after, or higher-profile indie titles. And if they could add a DRM-free solution to every game that has that option it would be a big plus as well.

I'm curious how do you know it's 10% that Humble takes for use of their widget? Source?? If I had a sort of semi-complaint about the cut that Humble takes from their store: if they are going to take a larger share than charity then I feel they should be doing more to actively promote the sales. For example, why is there not an e-mail that goes out to all Humble Bundle subscribers with the daily deals on the store? Obviously give people a separate setting to opt out of that if they want. I'm looking at this from a developer's point of view of course. There's a significant difference between getting 90% yield for use of the widget or 75% from Humble Store sales (yes I know 10% to charity), and that being the case I feel Humble could (should) be doing do more as far as promotion goes. It's still less than the 70% return that Steam gives (though not by much), and they do a better job at promotion.

Also, on a side discussion: Personally I have no problem with Humble offering some bundles with 'AAA' games to go along side with their more traditional indie bundle offers. From the WB Games Bundle, to the Origin Bundle, to the Deep Silver Bundle, to the THQ Bundle..... I can't argue against deals like these that they have thrown out there that offer incredible value.

Btw, here is a site I use that shows what games utilize Humble widget (table view = faster):
http://calvein.github.io/humble-games/index.html
Last edited by Shad0WeN on November 24th, 2013, 3:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

Post November 23rd, 2013, 8:14 pm

Posts: 867
To tell truth my main disappointment with Humble Store is what i, stupidly enough, expected something like GOG+steamkeys, ok ok, i can live even without such keys, but they can be considered as last option in case of total collapse of Humble. But look like its not going to happen.

About ShinyLoot - actually its not THAT bad in some areas. i even made several purchases here. First, through they usually have BIG prices they pretty often go to radical sales with huge discounts. Second, overall they pretty DRM-free friendly. Sometimes even MORE drm-free friendly then IGS, for example IGS selling X-blades for 3$ now, in form of Steam key (looks like, not sure), while i managed to get same game on SL for 1.5$ in form of installer+serial key. yeah, not so drm-free, but at least, steam-less.

Post November 23rd, 2013, 8:46 pm

Posts: 1362
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Toyotame wrote:
for example IGS selling X-blades for 3$ now, in form of Steam key (looks like, not sure), while i managed to get same game on SL for 1.5$ in form of installer+serial key. yeah, not so drm-free, but at least, steam-less.

I think mgnade has said in the past that IGS won't be selling steam-only games through the store, so I'm guessing it comes with a download too.

Also, you're lucky you only paid $1.5 for X-Blades because it's horrible. Play the sequel, Blades of Time instead.
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Post November 24th, 2013, 2:55 am

Posts: 273
ShinyLoot sells at a (much) higher base-price than even Steam/Desura, offers only DRM-free for that price and sale-prices are still higher than
elsewhere normally for the same thing. Getting one license for the price of two is a REALLY bad excuse to pretend to be cheap and a poor
deal for buyers regardless whether you wanted the standalone or 'the key'.

I don't mind Humble Store as such, it's just another store now. Not the indie or linux-friendly or DRM-free most were expecting and hoping for.
That's I feel where most the disappointment comes in. It's all the things that made Humble great I'd say (look at Linux stats e.g.).
The 10% was confirmed numerous times by devs and Humble themselves in an interview somewhere. Didn't actually keep the links but feel
free to dig; it's by now accepted as de-facto-information just like the 30% cut @ Steam which you aren't allowed to discuss by contract apparently even.
The Store takes 15%, not 25% by the way.

GoG was a strange beast. It offered a way to get the (badly) aged games running on your current system, had a broad catalogue and featured some
seemingly lost titles like their own Witcher series. That changed of course this year with a major push to PR and marketing, a RAPID expansion of their
library with current and soon-to-come games from smaller studios and great sales. All this while maintaining their fairly great price-point and all the
goodies.

Re. side note ;)
I have no issue w AAA games in bundles/stores. Humble seems to favor them at the moment as do the other bundles with the less-quality publishers
of mostly more casual games.

Not all widgets are on Francois' site (Oozi e.g.) but that's also 'reader-error' as we could simply add missing ones. VERY important I'd say to note is that
the discounted prices almost never show up in the table, nor does content in pull-down menus. These two are what kept me away from that list now for
the past year and change.

Post November 24th, 2013, 12:32 pm

Posts: 867
GnomeSlice wrote:
Also, you're lucky you only paid $1.5 for X-Blades because it's horrible. Play the sequel, Blades of Time instead.

Actually, i paid nothing - i used credits from leaving game reviews.

Duck wrote:
Didn't actually keep the links but feel
free to dig; it's by now accepted as de-facto-information just like the 30% cut @ Steam which you aren't allowed to discuss by contract apparently even.
The Store takes 15%, not 25% by the way.

To tell truth, its not hard to take a look at standart Humble Inc contract for devs - https://humblebundle-a.akamaihd.net/mis ... latest.pdf
Its not really much better then desura, minimal payment is 250$ (5.3) and and money (payment systems fee deducted) is divided in this model 75% to dev, 15% to Humble, 10% to charity. (5.2, 5.3)
About humble widget, its said in 5.1 - 95% to dev from money with payment_system_fees deducted. That fees is usually around 10%, so real shares is like 67% to dev in Store and 85% to dev in Widget.
OFC Widget % is bigger, but from developer of Race of Sun experience, without real marketing humble widgets sales is not very big due small amount of peoples expecting game to be sold on dev site.

About GOG - yes, they decided to go more indie and modern titles friendly, but they still require them to be decent quality, "oldschool" or at least, to continue some old series. And i have to say, that usually GOG allows only good games in their store, so its pretty hard to purchase some crap on GOG. Shame that they dont provide Linux ports EVEN if they exists, and provided in other stores. I heard this will change someday, but so far they already busy embracing MAC platform.

Post November 25th, 2013, 3:58 pm

Posts: 150
Toyotame wrote:
[Its not really much better then desura, minimal payment is 250$


I'd guess that a game selling in the humble store will likely hit that $250 a lot faster than it would hit the $500 payout point on Desura. I'm not sure what percentage of Desura's "sales" are actual sales vs people redeeming bundle keys. But if it's less than 80% bundle keys I'd be very surprised.

I do know that over the years I've consistently seen articles/comments/interviews where developers say they made little or no money on Desura.

Post November 25th, 2013, 5:31 pm

Posts: 49
Location: Long Island, New York, United States
Duck wrote:
Not all widgets are on Francois' site (Oozi e.g.) but that's also 'reader-error' as we could simply add missing ones. VERY important I'd say to note is that
the discounted prices almost never show up in the table, nor does content in pull-down menus. These two are what kept me away from that list now for
the past year and change.


What alternative site would you suggest then?

Post November 26th, 2013, 6:47 am

Posts: 273
There is no alternative.

The way the widgets are set up doesn't seem to allow data to be mined that
would make the table meaningful. The website itself is quite hands-of; it depends
on user-updates mostly although 'isthereanydeal.com' I guess supplies a lot of data :P

I'd recommend to stick to the widget view and perhaps check the dev sites for smaller
games / previously widget-ed companies for potential missing ones..


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